Anyone got an angle-grinder?
As you may know, this is a subject that's bothered me recently but hopefully life is about to become more difficult for this dishonest and unreasonable trade.
For those of you who haven't read my rant, catalysed by the clamping of my car at Drunkeen Retail Park's massive car park earlier this year and the subsequent lightening of my wallet of over £100 to release it; I've included the story at the end of this piece. I should also add that when I was having my expenses calculated, it was pointed out to me that the clamping company had overcharged the Vat at the old 17.5% rate.
Clampets...
Well, here's the good news: A press release from the Home Office states that a major new consultation has begun into plans to subject rogue wheel clamping businesses to tough new regulations.
The public consultation, which sets out proposals for licensing wheel clamping firms, will run for 12 weeks.
The Government‘s proposals include the introduction of compulsory licensing to tackle the limited number of wheel clamping businesses whose practices include excessive fines for releasing clamped cars, towing cars unreasonably quickly after being clamped and putting up hidden, missing or confusing signs warning drivers that clamping takes place.
Currently, any individual undertaking wheel clamping must hold a frontline licence from the Security Industry Authority (SIA), with supervisors or directors holding a non-frontline licence.
The new proposals could also make it mandatory for the business itself to be licensed to help ensure it upholds standards of conduct, which will be enforced if they are not met.
Home Office Minister Alan Campbell, said: “There are clearly a minority of wheel clamping businesses that indulge in unacceptable behaviour including unclear signage and excessive fees.
“The Government intends to take firm action to prevent abuses by some of these firms and their employees.
“This consultation paper is designed to canvass views on a range of options for controls and is a vital step towards putting an end to rogue practices by some clampers.”
Let's hope that this consultation produces useful legislation to regulate the unreasonable practices of clamping companies - even those that call themselves "reputable".
> Previous news
Nobody likes it, the clamping companies get very bad press, it’s inconvenient and it’s bloody costly.
These are the reasons why I thought my ‘misfortune’ should be publicised. My story starts Monday this week – I was picking up a press car and upon deciding that a handy place to meet the logistics company was a large retail car park, I settled upon Drumkeen Retail Park on the Saintfield Road in Belfast. I swapped the car over and gave very little thought to leaving my Merc in a very large car park, beside a wall and causing no reasonable inconvenience to anyone.
Next thing I knew, I got a call on my mobile from the Police (I’m still not sure how they got my number) telling me that my car had been clamped. I arrived the next day to find a notice that was lying on the ground behind my car, directing me to contact Select Management and Security Ltd on a Belfast number. I did this and got no reply but tried a mobile number – a man that did not wish to be publicly identified answered .I’ll refer to him as Clamper A (I gave him a small fortune, giving me the right to call him anything) agreed to meet me in five minutes – the van arrived, two big lads wearing stab-vests got out and I asked a few questions.
Clamper A releases my Merc after lightening my wallet of £105 cash
According to Clamper A, anyone currently has the right to clamp a vehicle that’s parked on private property in Northern Ireland as long as they have the permission of the property owner. A law will come into force in September which will require all individuals operating as clampers to possess the appropriate accreditation. I’ve requested clarification on this from a solicitor.
I could understand if I'd parked in a disabled space or a mother and baby space (not that I would have) but the fact that my car was not inconveniencing anyone, nor was it a public danger of any kind is completely irrelevant apparently.
When Clamper A was informed that I intended writing a story on the subject, he asked why and after a short discussion about the questionable ethics employed by “disreputable” car clampers, he assured me that Select Management and Security Ltd had acted within the law and was fully entitled to immobilise my car and relieve me of the ridiculous fee of £105 to release it.
Keep up the great work lads!
Call me cynical but this is the way I see it. Presumably the owners (Drumkeen Centre Management) of the property I parked on is entitled to a fee for allowing the clamping operator to work there. Once the operator is satisfied that all of the criteria is fulfilled, he attaches a clamp and charges the release fee to the hapless car owner.
Who can blame them, really? There are people that are prepared to use obvious gaps in the law to make easy money. I doubt if you could get much easier than this. The property owner wins, the operator wins and the car owner gets screwed.
The scary thing is that there is no legislation governing the amount that the operators can charge.
Honestly - ISTM clamped a hearse
I’ve also managed to unearth a story by the Belfast Telegraph – apparently a customer who loaded his vehicle with £300 worth of shopping in the Drunkeen Retail complex last December had his car clamped by clamping operator ISTM (winners of the uncoveted RAC Dick Turpin Award) twenty minutes after he walked away because he was “no longer a customer”.
Unbelievably The same company was also responsible the clamping of a hearse (complete with recently deceased) and a funeral limo earlier in the year – presumably the late occupant was also no longer deemed to be a customer owing to the fact that they had released their grip on the mortal coil.
What are your thoughts on clampers (even the 'reputable' ones)? Have you any related experiences?
No use of filthy language will be permitted.
.
>Editor's note:
Below is an official response from Andy Tough from Drumkeen Holdings Ltd:
Mr Hume,
I refer to your e-mail and the attached article.
I am not sure what it is that you are asking, but perhaps I could clarify a few points with you.
From your article the following would appear to be the points you are making ;
1. You parked a vehicle in the Customer Car Park at Drumkeen Retail Park
2. You left the vehicle there overnight
3. You were not intending to make any purchases at the Retail Park, which the Customer car park serves, and for which the tenants pay a service charge to maintain and provide.
4. You arrived back the next day to find your car had been clamped.
5. You appear to be unhappy that you were charged for having your car released
I would respond as follows;
1. The Car Park was built as part of a Retail Warehouse development.Under Planning legislation we were required to provide a specific number of CUSTOMER car spaces, in relation to the amount of retail space provided. This restricted the amount of accommodation we could develop on the site, but we were able to accommodate the required amount of spaces. The reason I labour this point is that the Car Park is there for the use of CUSTOMERS ONLY and if unauthorised use of the Car Park, as in your case, went unchecked we would find ourselves at peak times with insufficient Parking to serve our legitimate customers. I am not aware of Drumkeen Holdings ever marketing the Car Park as a Park and Ride facility, so where you came to the conclusion that you could simply abandon your car on private property I can't imagine. Taking your logic further perhaps you had considered parking in the driveway of a private dwelling, as your reasoning would seem to suggest that would be acceptable provided nobody was home !!!
2. Perhaps if you wanted to leave your car somewhere secure overnight you might have considered paying to leave it in a Public Car park like everyone else does.
3. You mention that the Chaps from Select Management were wearing stab vests. I am not sure of the relevance of this point but It's certainly a sad indictment of modern society that they feel it is necessary to do so.
4. For the avoidance of doubt There are numerous signs located around the Retail Park warning against unauthorised use of the Customer car park, so I cannot believe you were not aware of the possibility of being clamped.
5. Additionally I can assure you that Drumkeen Holdings Ltd do not in any way gain financially from the Clamping of Cars, indeed a portion of the monies collected by Select Management is paid by us to the Clic Sargent Charity, which we have supported for a number of years.
6. The use of Clamping is not a money making exercise. It is designed to be a deterrent to people like yourself who are not using our facilities.
In conclusion it occurs to me that given you left your car in Drumkeen Retail Park, where there are numerous signs displayed indicating that unauthorised Parking will result in clamping, you should not be surprised or indeed aggrieved at having been clamped.
I trust this answers any queries you may have.
Regards
Andrew G Tough
.
Select Management Ltd also replied to the piece by way of a telephone call yesterday:
The spokesman, who again did not wish to be identified, wanted me to confirm that the company that clamped the hearse and the unlucky Christmas shopper was the company that had previously held the contract for clamping within the Drumkeen Retail Complex. Select Management Ltd consider themselves to be a reputable clamping company that operates within the guidelines of a law that has yet to be passed.
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maso
I have had experience with the clampers too, my car was sitting outside my house 3 days after the tax had expired (i was using a different car which was taxed) when i came home to find the car clamped, the mot was just about to expire and i wasnt sure if it was worth mot'ing the car againnso i decided to scrap the car, right at the front door.
I called the clampers and told them to come and take the car which did rather surprise them.
They said they would be down the next day so I got to work, my cousin had a car the same so I gave him the exhaust and engine along with the door windows
I took the seats out for my 2cv
Removed the unclamped wheels because you can never have too many spare tyres and put it on bricks.
It took them a few days to come down to collect it
When they got out of the lorry they started taking pictures and went to drive off, so i stopped them and asked them why they werent taking it, they couldnt as there were no wheels.
The machine uses the wheels to lift it, so if you remove a front and rear wheel they cannt lift it, they then removed the clamp and that was the end of the matter.
Its not unusual to find yourself stuck if your unaware that you are maybe breaking some protocol so as I work outside the hours of the clampers I usually keep an angle grinder handy in case I come out of work and im clamped and unable to get home.
I wonder what the law is if you leave the clamp on the car, how long would they leave it before they just wanted the car out of the way and removed the clamp or what the legal implications are of a private company taking your car without your permission.
Anyway for future information what to do is
Cut the padlock, an angle grinder (powered by an inverter) or a strong chisel and heavy hammer should do the trick,
Pop to the nearest hardware shop and buy a new padlock
Return the clamp along with the new padlock to the clamper, you are not allowed to remove the clamp from that location so call them out
The fee is to remove the clamp but there may be civil charges if you damage it which is why you replace the padlock.
Dont worry about people watching you and getting into trouble they will be on your side.
The fewer people let them win the harder their job is and maybe there will be fewer of them
pwrmotorsport
I've never had the misfortune to be clamped but I would rather risk taking an angle grinder to the clamp rather than pay the company a release fee - I reckon that the law is vague enough for you to argue your case!
Oh yes - nearly forgot! It's not illegal to park in disabled / mother & toddler spaces in private car parks - it's only a courtesy thing that you are requested to observe.
Bob Hume
Incidentally neither the retail complex nor the operator has officially commented on the subject yet.
I've a good mind to consider parking a slogan-adorned scrapper with one wheel in a prominent position in that car park. I won't however - if a slogan-adorned scrapper with one wheel appears in the car park, it will definately have been left there by someone else who may look like me.
Chris
£105 - there is absolutely no way that i would have agreed to pay that unless they were either an official traffic warden or a cop.
I'm with Maso and the Angle grinder approach.
Lets see if our new legal eagle can make anything of it
sonik
A number of drivers were still stuck with nowhere to park about 20 minutes past the show start time and must have decided to park on the footpaths in the surrounding area. As we left that night one of these great clamping companies had clamped almost every single one of them. If the venue isn't capable of providing adequate parking it's totally unfair to use this against the vehicle owners.
I wonder if you go in and buy something after having being clamped are you classified as a customer?
mcgradz
There was a story in the Mourne Observer a few months back about a man who had been shopping in the complex for a couple of hours, and before making the journey home popped around the corner into Sainsbury's filling station for a sandwich. Lo and behold, in the 5 minutes he was away he was clamped. It's obviously just a cynical money making operation, run by stereotypical fat bloke with tattoo (looks like an ex-con to me!)
Lord knows they find enough legal ways to endlessly milk the motorist cash cow, just maybe they could close this loophole and do us all a favour
thewheelman
Bob Hume
Mr Hume,
I refer to your e-mail and the attached article.
I am not sure what it is that you are asking, but perhaps I could clarify a few points with you.
From your article the following would appear to be the points you are making ;
1. You parked a vehicle in the Customer Car Park at Drumkeen Retail Park
2. You left the vehicle there overnight
3. You were not intending to make any purchases at the Retail Park, which the Customer car park serves, and for which the tenants pay a service charge to maintain and provide.
4. You arrived back the next day to find your car had been clamped.
5. You appear to be unhappy that you were charged for having your car released
I would respond as follows;
1. The Car Park was built as part of a Retail Warehouse development.Under Planning legislation we were required to provide a specific number of CUSTOMER car spaces, in relation to the amount of retail space provided. This restricted the amount of accommodation we could develop on the site, but we were able to accommodate the required amount of spaces. The reason I labour this point is that the Car Park is there for the use of CUSTOMERS ONLY and if unauthorised use of the Car Park, as in your case, went unchecked we would find ourselves at peak times with insufficient Parking to serve our legitimate customers. I am not aware of Drumkeen Holdings ever marketing the Car Park as a Park and Ride facility, so where you came to the conclusion that you could simply abandon your car on private property I can't imagine. Taking your logic further perhaps you had considered parking in the driveway of a private dwelling, as your reasoning would seem to suggest that would be acceptable provided nobody was home !!!
2. Perhaps if you wanted to leave your car somewhere secure overnight you might have considered paying to leave it in a Public Car park like everyone else does.
3. You mention that the Chaps from Select Management were wearing stab vests. I am not sure of the relevance of this point but It's certainly a sad indictment of modern society that they feel it is necessary to do so.
4. For the avoidance of doubt There are numerous signs located around the Retail Park warning against unauthorised use of the Customer car park, so I cannot believe you were not aware of the possibility of being clamped.
5. Additionally I can assure you that Drumkeen Holdings Ltd do not in any way gain financially from the Clamping of Cars, indeed a portion of the monies collected by Select Management is paid by us to the Clic Sargent Charity, which we have supported for a number of years.
6. The use of Clamping is not a money making exercise. It is designed to be a deterrent to people like yourself who are not using our facilities.
In conclusion it occurs to me that given you left your car in Drumkeen Retail Park, where there are numerous signs displayed indicating that unauthorised Parking will result in clamping, you should not be surprised or indeed aggrieved at having been clamped.
I trust this answers any queries you may have.
Regards
Andrew G Tough
Bob Hume
Dear Mr Tough
I’m not sure how anyone could consider my car a nuisance or inconvenience when the tenants’ shops were closed for the evening.
The driveway analogy is a weak one – drawing a parallel between my parking in the corner of a huge car park and parking in someone’s driveway. The fact is that the only way these two scenarios could be connected is that they are both private property but I’m struggling to see how my parking in the corner of an enormous car park would cause anything like the same convenience as parking in someone’s driveway. This is unhelpful.
I was never under any misconception that the car park was a “Park and Ride” facility and I consider the statement unhelpful. Equally, I consider the “abandoned” description unhelpful – I parked my car in a corner of the car park and within an allocated space.
Point 2 - Regarding the statement “…might have considered paying to leave it in a Public Car park like everyone else does…” – thank you for the advice, I will definitely consider this should similar circumstances arise.
Point 3 – Yes, I completely agree, modern society is becoming heartless and uncompromising.
Point 4 – There are signs, I photographed them – the nearest one to my car at an estimate, was around 8 metres from where the clamping occurred and was placed on a lamp post well above average eye level.
Point 5 – The use of the word “portion” would suggest that SOME of the money that is paid to you by the operator is in turn graciously paid by you to a worthy charity. However the statement needs clarified if it is to be used as a defence – if you do not profit from the clamping of cars, is the money paid to you as part of a “licensing fee” by the operator for the privilege of operating in your car park. If that is the case, should the statement not be that Drumkeen Holdings “does not gain financially DIRECTLY from the fees collected as a result of the clamping of cars on its premises”. It seems evident from your statement that money IS paid to you by the operator and that you allocate some of it to charity.
The closing paragraph suggests that I shouldn’t be too bothered at having my car immobilised in a car park. Whilst the operator clamped my car within the guidelines of a law which does not yet exist; the fact is that I’m truly confounded.
Despite your lengthy defence of my inconvenience and monetary loss, I’m still convinced that it had no reasonable mitigation.
>My car was not a danger or an inconvenience to anyone.
>The release fee of £105 is completely unreasonable.
>As far as I can see there is adequate parking to accommodate the staff and patrons all organisations so I’m struggling to see how your premises could be overwhelmed by rogue non-customers.
>Select is a profit-making company and I assume that its agents will be naturally disposed to clamp as many “unauthorised” cars as possible.
>I was a regular customer in several of Drumkeen units but will no longer patronise these businesses for fear that if I don’t return to my car with shopping, I will not be considered a “customer” and will therefore be subject to having my property impounded.
DriveWire.eu of which I am the editor, exists to serve its audience and to advise them of any circumstance that could result in further hardship to an already overburdened and large section of the community – Irish and Northern Irish motorists.
Therefore my conclusion should be to advise my audience NOT to park their vehicles in the Drumkeen complex under any circumstances unless they are prepared to provide proof that they are “authorised” customers. This is partially based on the very recent case of Chris Marshall who was a paying customer in the Drumkeen complex but was deemed an “unauthorised” user of the car park upon leaving the property to visit a pharmacy across the road.
Whilst I understand that the contractor involved in this case has since been replaced by Select, what assurances have we that this type of unreasonable behaviour will not reoccur. Your current operator has already demonstrated a huge amount of inflexibility and lack of compromise by issuing the excuse that the release fee had already been “processed” and could not be reversed when I asked them reasonably to do so.
Kind regards
Bob Hume
Editor – DriveWire.eu
Paul Green
In answers to the point about them having to set an example, how about a system which gives a warning first? If they are serial abusers, and they haven't heeded to the warning, then I can see a reason for clamping, if space is tight. Of course, having such warnings and judgement calls, reduces the profitability of the companies who exercise such clamping.
While I can understand that the surrounding shops need enough space as their customers, these heavy-handed actions may alienate past and future customers.
Perhaps a 'one strike and then you're out' system would be more appropriate? Having a simple warning flyer pinned to the windscreen and number plate stored in the database would be sufficient. This would both deter people from abusing the car parking spaces, while remaining fair.
Bob Hume
I do not propose to engage in a protracted dialogue in regard to this matter, as I believe I have clearly stated our position.
I would however wish to apologise if my previous response was in any way terse, or unhelpful.
One of the biggest management issues we have here is that of Car Park Congestion at peak times and for a long time we took a pretty relaxed attitude to various abuses of the facilities. This often left us with real congestion problems at peak periods as a result of non customers using the Car Park.
I wholeheartedly agree that there is a need for flexibility and I believe this is reflected in our appointing Select Management.
I would emphasise, in the clearest possible terms that any proceeds paid to Drumkeen Holdings as a result of Clamping in the Drumkeen Retail Park , are paid over, in full, to Clic Sargent. The Clamping of unauthorised Parked Cars is not a profit making exercise, but the only method which appears to have any impact in deterring such Parking.
It is not an ideal or perfect method, but there is I believe an appeals process in the event of any mistakes being made.
I took the time to have a look at your excellent site and indeed browsed the blog. I was interested to note a comment that one of your bloggers made as follows "Oh yes - nearly forgot! It's not illegal to park in disabled / mother & toddler spaces in private car parks - it's only a courtesy thing that you are requested to observe." He may or may not be correct, but we are obliged under Planning and Building Control legislation to provide suitably marked Disabled Car Spaces !!! This is for all the right reasons, but it doesn't stop people parking in them who are not disabled. The only way we have been able to deter this is by Clamping. As the Car Park is Privately owned Traffic Wardens are not able to issue tickets on our premises, so if you can think of a better solution I would be delighted to hear it.
Best Regards
Andy
Bob Hume
Mr Tough
Your position is clear. Thanks for the apology - accepted.
Thanks for clearing up all of my queries, especially the Clic Sargent donations.
With regard to the nature of the commenter's statement - it is my view that they are stating facts. I'm sure it would not be the intention of any of our audience to deliberately park in a disabled or mother and baby space and I'm well aware of the moral implications regarding this.
However I feel that solving the management of your car park is beyond the limit of my skills - perhaps we'll be lucky enough to get a comment that will revolutionise car park management.
Thanks for your time.
Regards
Bob
mcgradz
I won't be shopping in Drumkeen retail park until this is resolved, I simply don't have £105 to throw away on dubious parking charges, to which it seems I have little comeback even if I'm a paying customer . There are many other retailers in Greater Belfast that offer free parking without draconian limits, I would suggest people visit them instead until this reaches a fair resolution.
I would like to thank Bob and the Drivewire team for lifting the lid on this murky industry, its about time someone stood up for the common motorist!
Paul Green
beetleboy
we went to the toy shop and within 3-4 minutes i went back to the car and the clampers van was on there way to our car i rushed over and jumped in and reversed out. the driver gave me advice to park in 1 space only, i explained it was because we had a baby with us, he replied there are plenty of spaces for babies (which there isnt).
bit off topic but spuds you like in castle court REFUSED (when we were buying lunch) to provide water to cool our babies milk down. instead offering to SELL me bottled water at £1.
needless to say i told them where to stick their baked potatoes :mrgreen:
i wrote a letter to spuds you like but im still awaiting their response
cheers jim
GTA Turbo
My own personal clamping experience was ott also. I had bought a Puma to sell on, and the tax had expired so I had parked it in a kind neighbour's driveway. One day she asked me to take it out for a few hours so that she could get some stuff into/out of her garage so I took it out the night before (having to work the next day). When I came home from work I found the car clamped on the side of the road. I then had to pay £200 to get it unclamped, and put 6 months RFL on it, just for having it on the road for a day! Needless to say I was fuming!
I'm gonna take Maso's advice from now on and carry an angle grinder or hacksaw in the car!!
maso
or you could buy a set of 4 clamps, clamp it yourself and see what they do then
a friend if mine had his work van clamped, they sent out a mechanic and he disconnected the driveshaft instead
best to avoid clampers really and since any car i drive looks like a scrapper i suppose Drumkeen isnt somewhere i should go
Chris
I too would like to know how much of the fee goes to charity as I'm sure the clampers are making a tidy profit out of what should be in my opinion an illegal activity. Charity donations go no way to justifying this unscrupulous behaviour.
Maybe we should get a list together of retail parks for which 'customers' are at greatest risk.
Lets list it like a music chart! - we could even flyer vehicles ourselves to raise awareness.
I for one will no longer be shopping at Drumkeen retail park unless this problem is resolved.
maso
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Ban-clamps/
Captain_Grumpy
Anyway, Makita and DeWalt both make natty battery powered angle grinders at about £80 a throw, and don't forget the false plates for when you park up. That way they can't trace you after you marmalize the clamp. Use a number from a car in the National Motor Museum.
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